VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 4: Cix Liv

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be a part of us as we welcome Cix Liv of LIV, YUR and REK. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Episode 4 – Cix Liv

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that may revolutionize the way in which the world will play sports activities, work out and get match together with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field vr, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR fitness center and convey a long time of expertise from creating a number of the largest health expertise corporations on the earth.

They’re bringing collectively the very best and brightest minds that can assist you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Alright. Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. We have now a VR, AR, XR guru and pioneer right here with us at present, Cix Liv. Cix, thanks for being right here.

Cix Liv: Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: So why don’t we begin off, with you simply giving our viewers a fast intro into who you’re and your background.

Cix Liv: The story of San Francisco, why I got here up right here is definitely a humorous one. I’ll inform it actual rapidly. After I initially got here to the West coast, I used to be initially from the Midwest. I used to be from Minnesota, [00:01:00] Colorado, Minnesota.

And what introduced me to the West Coast is I used to be promoting laptop {hardware}, and I stored transport it again to a spot referred to as Metropolis of Trade. I heard that title and I used to be, like, “wow.” You understand, like, Metropolis of Trade, proper? I used to be simply so fucking bored with how chilly the Midwest was, and I might all the time joke with my pals that sometime I’m gonna get in a automobile, I’m gonna drive to the West Coast and also you’re by no means gonna see my ass once more. And I did that. I did that someday, and I confirmed up in Metropolis of Trade, which is outdoors of Los Angeles, and it’s simply, the warehouses, proper?

Yeah, I confirmed up there and I used to be like dwelling in a fucking warehouse. Undoubtedly not like a heat starting to California. However truly that’s once I began calling myself Cix. So, it’s not my beginning title. My beginning title is totally different. I believe lots of people, after they make enormous life choices, they often wish to change themselves and who they have been and every little thing. And Cix was my on-line [00:02:00] id.

However yeah, a brief story about why I got here as much as San Francisco is I used to be working in expertise, in a rudimentary sense. I didn’t perceive all of the tech lingo and all this VC nonsense that we’ve up right here. However I used to be in California on the time and I heard about this app referred to as Yo. And it was a push notification app, and all of the app did was while you press your good friend’s title and it could do a push notification and stated, “yo”. And that raised thousands and thousands of {dollars}. And I used to be like, “I don’t know what the fuck they’re smoking in San Francisco.”

Preston Lewis: Like a Silicon Valley, a Silicon Valley episode.

Cix Liv: They’re out of their fucking minds. Yeah, in order that’s why got here as much as San Francisco, and now I’ve been caught right here for eight years. However, that’s the story of how I made up right here “I used to be like, wow, these guys are nuts.” And I would like be a part of that as a result of…

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. That’s superior.

Preston Lewis: I like it was like Metropolis of Trade. I might simply think about what you have been like envisioning was similar to [00:03:00] this Utopia of companies and stuff after which simply to point out up at a warehouse is hilarious.

Cix Liv: Skyrises and I confirmed up and it’s actually simply warehouses. It’s referred to as Metropolis of Trade, it’s the Industrial District. So undoubtedly not a rosy entrance to California, let’s put it that means.

Preston Lewis: Sounds such as you’ve had some actually experiences in California, with the Yo app, and the street journey, and leaving all your folks behind and transferring to the Metropolis of Trade. However, inform our viewers how you bought involved in VR. Uh, why’d you get involved in it? What first drew you to it?

Cix Liv: Yeah, so the primary jobs I had in San Francisco have been IT jobs. So, I used to be principally fixing shit for individuals; whether or not it was corporations or excessive web price individuals. I fastened one of many co-founders of Google’s, like private Wi-Fi.

I arrange Justin Kahn’s Wi-Fi. He in all probability doesn’t know that I used to be that Taskrabbit dude establishing his fucking Wi-Fi, however , sometime, [00:04:00] sometime I’ll inform that story.

Ryan DeLuca: Nonetheless have his password?

Cix Liv: Humble first, uh, beginnings right here. So, however my background was very totally different than a number of tech individuals in San Francisco. Quite a lot of tech individuals in San Francisco have been engaged on cellular functions, and SaaS merchandise and issues like that. They have been very deep on that finish. I used to be working in IT stuff my entire life, both on the {hardware} facet, or simply fixing stuff on a regular basis.

So I had that distinctive perspective. I bought into VR, as a result of I used to be working as an IT man and I bought entry to the DK2. So I wasn’t OG sufficient to say DK1. Sadly, I wasn’t that early into VR. So I bought the DK2 and I used to be making an attempt it out and I used to be like, “that is actually fucking cool”, however it wasn’t fairly sufficient to get me to commit my life to it.

I attempted a number of the experiences the place I used to be sitting down utilizing a controller and I used to be transferring my head round. I used to be like, “yeah, that is fairly cool.” The racing stuff, I actually bought into. However then I bought entry to the Vive Pre, , the dev equipment earlier than the VIVE got here out. I bought the Vive [00:05:00] Pre and I had an early construct of a Area Pirate Coach, and I used to be taking part in it in the lounge.

So once I moved to San Francisco, I used to be dwelling with fifty individuals on this co-living, sort of hippie-ish factor the place like individuals would come collectively to attempt to survive the outrageous prices of dwelling in San Francisco. They might prepare dinner one another meals and stuff. So I lived with fifty fucking individuals once I got here to San Francisco.

Ryan DeLuca: And it wasn’t a bunch of homeless tents. It was truly a spot

Cix Liv: Undoubtedly very humble beginnings once I got here to San Francisco. However I had the Vive Pre and I set it up in the lounge there, and I performed Area Pirate Coach. And I bear in mind a second the place I used to be taking pictures out the drones. And a drone shot at me, and the laser was coming in direction of me, and each single second in my gaming life previous to this… I’ve been obsessive about video video games my complete life. I like to inform those that video video games raised me greater than my mother and father did. Which, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna respect me saying that publicly, however Zelda raised me greater than my dad. [00:06:00] We’re not gonna get too far into that.

However, I had this second. The laser’s coming in direction of me, and each single a part of my gamer mind is pondering, press down on the thumbs stick and that is the way you’re gonna dodge it. However then I used to be like, wait a second, my physique is the controller. And I did one in all these Matrix strikes, I went like again like this and the laser went over me, and I got here again and it was like, fuck.

That’s the way forward for gaming. I’m the controller now. Holy shit, ? And it was just like the convergence of every little thing that I believed in as a human being, about personifying your personal new id, about physicality and about video video games all coming collectively.

That excellent connection of who I used to be. And that’s what bought me into the house.

Ryan DeLuca: I believe all of us have that second, proper in VR, after all everybody does like Richie’s Plank Expertise and “oh, I truly really feel like I used to be falling.”

And like, while you actually [00:07:00] notice that you just truly really feel such as you’re there. And I believe it makes whole sense that video video games all the time have been a controller or keypad the place you’re pondering that you’re truly in that world and pretending that you just’re that character.

You’re clearly totally faraway from it on a flat display. And it’s the dream that we all the time needed. We all the time pretended we have been that factor after which impulsively VR , now you’re in there, such as you stated. Like the primary time you even have to maneuver and also you don’t wanna transfer, since you’re not likely positive the place you’re at in actual house, however then when you do it, it’s fairly magical.

Preston Lewis: Area Pirate coach was wonderful for its time. It was one of many earlier titles and I nonetheless assume they’ve a number of the greatest graphics and mechanics in there.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it was unbelievable. I believe the primary recreation that may get the crown for the primary health recreation in VR, I might say might be Audio Defend.

Audio Defend was one thing that our CTO at Liv completely cherished. It wasn’t seen as like a really apparent use case to start with of digital actuality.

You’re carrying this factor in your face, why do you wanna run round, too? Like, even Carmack, even John Carmack, the CTO of Oculus on the time, he wasn’t satisfied in any respect on [00:08:00] energetic motion in VR. He’s like, “why the fuck would I placed on a headset and run round”, ?

Ryan DeLuca: Individuals are gonna wanna sit down. And even the primary expertise with the Oculus, it was like an Xbox controller and it was the 2 cameras in entrance, for those who solely had two. You couldn’t even transfer all the way in which, uh, in a circle. And so it did appear to make sense. And we’ve the identical story, like, we heard him say that.

After which now after all he’s speaking about exercising in VR on a regular basis with Beat Saber.

Cix Liv: The final time I see him, he’s bought the forearms and every little thing’s, like, these are Beat Saber arms, ?

Preston Lewis: “These are Beat Saber arms”, that’s superior.

Ryan DeLuca: In order that then led you into beginning corporations within the XR house. First one being Liv. You wanna inform us a bit of bit about co-founding that and the way that went and what you discovered from that?

Cix Liv: You understand, I used to be tremendous involved in VR, after which there was this co-working house in San Francisco referred to as Add, which it was a fantastic place for individuals to come back collectively.

I do know there’s been controversy about Add, however I had a number of optimistic experiences there. [00:09:00] Particularly with some members of the group. The man who permitted me to be a part of this co-living house was a man named Oz. Ozran all of the combined actuality stuff on the location.

And once I met Oz, he had this inexperienced display room and he was doing combined actuality the place he was placing individuals within the recreation and exhibiting all people outdoors of VR what it was wish to be in VR. And once I noticed him doing that, it answered one of many greatest elementary issues that we had in our house, which was , “what the fuck are you doing?” Proper? In the event you see somebody in a headset they usually’re sitting down they usually’re similar to, going like this, like the primary inclination lots of people had is “are they watching porn?” Like, what the fuck are they doing in that headset? You understand? Um…

Ryan DeLuca: And it turned out fifty p.c of the time, that was true.

Cix Liv: In your VR. I might say that was in all probability true. Let’s be trustworthy. However , once we moved to love full physique monitoring, for those who have been to take a look at somebody taking part in Beat Saber and never have any context in any respect, proper?

You’d be like, “what?” Like, “is that this individual tripping balls or [00:10:00] one thing?” ” What the hell are they doing?” However then while you took the digital world and also you, and also you confirmed individuals the context of what was occurring, it went from dorky to chill.

And I’m a robust believer that expertise shifts occur while you make one thing dorky, cool. It’s so simple as that. And so, for those who take a look at the evolution of electrical automobiles, Elon Musk actually referred to as his line “horny”. Proper? As a result of, electrical automobiles as much as that have been like good automobiles and stuff like that, the place all people thought electrical automobiles have been fucking dorky. Proper?

And so one of many large issues that I all the time take a look at on this house is, how will we make this cool? After which Zuckerberg is available in there and makes it probably the most dorky shit on the earth? Anyway. Little little bit of a tangent, however Liv was in a position to talk one thing that was inherently dorky and make it cool. And likewise enable individuals a window into VR, so you could possibly see what the individual was doing in actual time.

And so, Ozwas doing this. I used to be like, “that is wonderful.” [00:11:00] After which how will we create a product out of this? And in order that grew to become the large query. A number of the those that I used to reside with on this fifty individual co-op had moved into their very own condo. Their names have been AJ and Pierre.

In order that they have been my two pals. I like went to them and I principally co-oped their front room into a giant combined actuality inexperienced display. And I used to be sleeping on the sofa and like setting this up of their front room. And we simply bought obsessive about it. I like to think about it sort of like, , as youngsters you’ll report your self in a cassette participant and fake you have been radio jockeys or one thing?

I really feel like we have been sort of having that second the place we had this inexperienced display after which AJ went in there with a brilliant saiyan hat on, and there was this recreation the place you could possibly have mini weapons. It was referred to as Sirius Sam. And he had this video the place he would go in and he had mini weapons in his arm and he had a brilliant saiyan factor.

It was simply us doing ridiculous stuff. And AJ had [00:12:00] expertise within the startups, extra straight and learn how to communicate to traders and no matter. And we bought into Techstars from there. And, Liv is doing fairly properly proper now. I believe they simply raised eight and a half million, and that’s the story of Liv.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s so true what you’re saying although, it’s so obscure what individuals are doing contained in the headset. And for those who see it even on a flat display, it could even actually be tough. We wrestle with that a number of Black Field. Like how do you present individuals? We nonetheless do, how do you present individuals what you’re doing?

And we create some totally different sort of inexperienced display sort of environments, however it’s simply so tough and such a giant drawback that Liv with fixing, which continues to be an issue and folks nonetheless wrestle with that, however simply how nice it’s been to see what Liv has performed to, to assist with that.

Cix Liv: I want they might make like a one click on combined actuality companion with a digicam firm, and simply press the button and go for it. However, uh…

Ryan DeLuca: It’s coming, it’ll come out finally.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, to piggyback on that, one of many cool issues that we actually respect you doing all through your profession to this point has been taking this platform method to constructing your initiatives and merchandise. And yeah, the entire business has massively [00:13:00] benefited from these efforts. I in all probability enterprise to guess that Liv is perhaps the primary piece of software program used for combined actuality movies. And I’d in all probability say it’s most, if not all, of the viral VR movies have been in all probability made with Liv software program as properly.

Black Field VR, once we first used your software program, we noticed individuals lastly perceive, like “oh, wait a minute, you’re in an enviornment” and “oh, wait a minute, you’re interacting with a machine and also you’re doing health actions?” And so, truthfully enormous because of you and your group for doing that, as a result of I believe it’s been superior for the business.

Cix Liv: Yeah. The Beat Saber stuff was a loopy story.

We have been working with somebody who’s a fireplace spinner, her title was Swan. So the story of the viral occasion with Beat Saber, I don’t know if I’ll ever have an occasion like that earlier than, like, some individuals say “viral” after they have like 1,000,000 views or one thing. This shit hit a billion views, like globally throughout every little thing. There was one video on Fb that hit 200 million by itself. That stage of virality I’ve by no means seen earlier than, and it occurred to me. [00:14:00] We have been simply creating movies and it was normally simply me, or simply some individuals I do know, and I undoubtedly amp it up, however, , males in video video games and stuff, nothing tremendous novel about that.

So I had a good friend named Swan and he or she went in there and he or she was similar to recording movies of herself. And we weren’t even pondering a complete lot about it, we have been similar to recording these movies after which posted it to YouTube. The primary one she had the place she had like a Jedi outfit on, after which the video that went viral was the second that we posted on YouTube. And it began taking off a bit of bit, however nothing like outrageous. I fell asleep, and I wakened and I appeared down my telephone, it was like 300 notifications and I used to be like, “what the fuck is occurring?” And I opened it up, it was like, you’re on Recreation Cease, and also you’re on the entrance of that and in every single place.

They’d taken our fucking video, and we had a watermark on the underside proper, they usually had similar to, blurred it out. I might name that second the [00:15:00] client occasion of VR. Earlier than then we have been like early adopters that thought this geeky stuff was cool, however at that second it broke out of that restricted market that we had, as a result of movies can attain everybody. I’ll all the time keep in mind that second. It was undoubtedly a mix of a bunch of issues. And , the most important studying that I had from Liv, that I take to the following corporations after, which is necessary for this podcast, was that physicality was so important to speaking to individuals why VR was attention-grabbing. As a result of anytime that we had combined actuality or a video of somebody like sitting there doing one thing, nobody gave a shit. However while you had added physicality and folks have been like dancing and concerned within the content material, it could, it could carry out like 100 occasions higher.

The best way that I like to consider that’s the distinction between a film and a play. So in a play, you’re not essentially seeing the facial actions of somebody. You’re sort of like eliminated and farther [00:16:00] away. Um, so you must be loud and expressive. And since our face is roofed and also you’re not like speaking, , the nuances of your face, you must use physique language.

And it’s the identical factor that occurs in sports activities, proper? Like while you watch a sport, you’re not their face, you’re their physique, proper? And so the most important studying from Liv that bought me into understanding the significance of physicality past my very own ardour with it, was nobody gave a shit in regards to the content material if individuals weren’t energetic, they simply didn’t care. They have been like, okay, somebody’s being dorky in a headset. No. You understand, I don’t care.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s such level. Yeah. I imply, simply the way in which you place it, the physicality. And other people like to look at individuals doing bodily actions, proper? And sports activities and health. And so it’s simply this excellent mixture of that Beat Saber video got here out. I believe all of us have been a bit of bit shocked. “What is that this factor with, like, it’s one thing to do with lightsabers and music?” Yeah, it was simply all over the place. After which that’s once we had our non- early adopter or non- VR like skilled [00:17:00] pals asking us about it. Like, “oh, that’s like recreation with the lightsabers”, ? And it’s like all people knew about it.

Cix Liv: Yeah.

Preston Lewis: I believe Beat Saber owes you some royalties.

Cix Liv: I used to be in there serving to them lots with advertising within the early days. I believe that the success of Beat Saber, was not essentially simply Beat Saber itself. It launched with just a few songs, six to seven songs. It was the content material that made it attention-grabbing, after which there was a really giant modding group that got here out of it of about 4 hundred thousand individuals. And that modding group made it, so that they principally took the bottom fundamentals of Beat Saber and allowed you to place no matter track you needed in there. And I believe realistically, if it weren’t for these movies, after which subsequently that modding Discord to take care of its relevance.

After which the ultimate piece of that was that it grew to become the flagship for the Quest. I believe these have been the three large, like, moments that you could possibly say that related to the success of Beat Saber. Each, six to 9 months, there was one thing that hit proper on the proper time. It was an enormous quantity of luck [00:18:00] concerned, to be trustworthy. That preliminary launch was completely timed; the sport got here out, with a bunch of fanfare and all these movies; after which it grew to become the biggest VR discord on the earth of a whole lot of 1000’s of individuals.

They really needed to begin kicking individuals out, as a result of it went over Discord’s restrict. Have been creating mods with like totally different swords and songs and no matter. And that bought across the copyright difficulty the place most builders needed to license each single track, which will get extremely costly. So that they had this entire group primarily making infinite content material.

After which the ultimate piece of that’s when it got here out on the Quest, it transformed so properly to the Quest and, it didn’t have a number of the points that a number of the different VR video games had. Like Survios, for instance, couldn’t port a number of their video games to the Quest due to the constancy that was essential to port it.

So there have been a number of builders who created actually wonderful experiences who had a extremely exhausting time porting it all the way down to the Quest. So there have been like three [00:19:00] large issues that basically pushed the success of Beat Saber to the purpose the place it hit fifty p.c gadget penetration of the whole VR market. It was on over fifty p.c of all headsets on the earth, which was…

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Cix Liv: That’s nuts. That’s nuts.

Ryan DeLuca: It, it’s humorous you say that, as a result of it’s so true. Like, the customized content material, the customized songs, like, that was the very best half about it, proper? It’s like, there was so many alternative songs and maps, like limitless quantity, proper? And you could possibly discover any songs that you just favored and all types of loopy stuff.

And naturally individuals would price the very best ones. You’d be taught new songs. There’s so many, a lot music that I had simply discovered about that I’d by no means even heard about, that now I’m a fan of by way of that. And to me, that’s what sort of ruined it when it went to Quest, as a result of it was an ideal expertise for Quest, as a result of wi-fi, , as a result of I used to be all the time planning on the Vive or the, or the Index. However going to wi-fi was simply so nice, , they usually even made the 360 modes and stuff.

However, , it sort of leads into the following factor is, probably the greatest components about Beat Saber being the flagship recreation, that grew to become like actually the primary mainstream recreation that launched individuals to VR, was the factor we all the time hear, proper? “Hey, I’ve tried this Beat Saber recreation. It was tremendous enjoyable, [00:20:00] I cherished it. After which I noticed I’m exercising.” Like, it might have been another VR recreation that wasn’t actually an energetic recreation that grew to become the primary large one, however the truth that the primary large one had such an train cardio element to it, was additionally actually good for exhibiting health as a robust means to make use of VR.

So, inform us about YUR that led you into your subsequent large factor, your subsequent firm.

Cix Liv: Yeah, so, I needed to go away Liv for numerous causes. One of many causes was, is the group principally grew to become European primarily based and, I had a tough time with the concept of like, transferring to the Czech Republic.

You understand, I hadn’t began an organization pondering I must transfer to the Czech Republic. So I made some choices to make sure that, like, my departure could be okay for the corporate, and AJ grew to become the CEO, which was, , my roommate means again then. However I used to be itching to, do one thing once more straight away.

In hindsight, I in all probability ought to have taken a bit of little bit of a break, going straight from, startup 200 miles an hour to a different 200 miles an hour, sort of breaks you. However, I [00:21:00] strongly believed in VR health and previous to that I’ve been working a bit of bit with the VR Well being Institute with Aaron, uh, Stanton? Yeah. So, I’ll give him credit score. He noticed VR Health as changing into a giant factor, and I used to be looking for a solution to work with him. And I’ll say this, we have been looking for a solution to work collectively, however he strongly believed within the efficacy of every little thing to love an Nth diploma.

Like, we have to have it peer reviewed. We have to have coronary heart price trackers which can be validated by no matter. I used to be like, dude, “we simply gotta show to those that individuals are fucking exercising.” I used to be making an attempt to determine a solution to work with him. He didn’t wish to co-found it with me.

He’s in all probability a bit of mad at me now, no matter, like, shit occurs within the startup world. However I made a decision to not work with him as a result of, he didn’t wish to be a co-founder with me and he was so centered on efficacy of every little thing. And for me, having constructed a client firm earlier than, proving in any respect that individuals are doing one thing with the least friction attainable is the way you construct a client firm, proper?

So my thesis [00:22:00] was, okay, we’re gonna transfer in direction of a headset that’s now not tethered. I believe health is gonna be one in all, if not the most important use case. Folks would snigger at my fucking face. Even Aaron had the identical expertise; like, individuals thought we have been a joke, proper? He tells the story about how he was making an attempt to show to those that VR is health and folks would inform him, “no, you’re simply scared, that’s why your coronary heart price is excessive.” You understand, like zombies are after you. That’s why your coronary heart price is excessive. It’s not since you’re exercising, it’s since you’re afraid of what’s happening. I’m fucking exercising, man. He was making an attempt to show to those that it was a factor.

I didn’t need to be proved, I believed in it, proper? However I used to be simply, I used to be looking for, , how will we create a client product out of this? I began pondering, okay properly, let’s attempt to clear up this in a means that’s the least friction attainable.

I’m quick forwarding a bit of bit right here.

So, one other individual that basically believed in VR health, there weren’t many by the way in which. I bear in mind a gathering that I had with Oculus throughout [00:23:00] OC-6, the place I inform them, I stated, “hey, VR Health is gonna be a giant factor.” They virtually fucking laughed me out of the room. They have been like, “what are you speaking about?”

And I believe that is primarily on account of the truth that the way in which Fb determines product worth relies off current metrics that they’ll go right into a PM assembly and say, “hey, that is occurring, we should always try this too.” They’ve a really tough time with foresight, and I believe culturally that’s the greatest drawback with Fb, is that they solely function on current information they usually don’t have the foresight to see how one thing can evolve into one thing.

And so, I had that have the place they virtually like laughed me out of a room for pitching VR Health. Anyway, there was one different man who lived in San Francisco who believed in VR Health, and his title was Dylan.

I met up with Dylan and I used to be like, “dude, VR health is a factor.” I didn’t need to persuade him it was a factor. And that was one of many greatest points that I had with co-founding this firm, is I might go to individuals they usually’d be like, “VR health, [00:24:00] what are you speaking about?”

So Dylan, I didn’t need to persuade him. And so we began, YUR from that. And we bought into Enhance, which was an accelerator right here in San Mateo. Principally it was simply because I believe Adam Draper favored me, and he, , like, if I’m gonna be actual, I believe that’s what occurred. He was like “Cix, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing, man, however I’m a guess on you.” You understand, a kind of issues, proper? like Dylan hadn’t even dedicated to being within the firm by then. So I got here again to Dylan and I stated, “hey, if you wish to do that, we’re in Enhance now, we’ve a bit of bit of cash.”

So, we needed to create the least friction solution to get entangled on this. So our very first product was a mod in Beat Saber. And we already had, going again to what powered Beat Saber, was this huge modding group and it sort of skirted round a few of these totally different platform points that we’d have. Like, might we truly combine into Beat Saber formally? In all probability not. Proper? Particularly not proper out of the gate. So, we created this mod for Beat Saber and it grew to become extremely profitable. We began [00:25:00] principally what YUR was, was a subset, initially, of the Beat Saber modding Discord eager to train.

And in order that group that we constructed was, initially, the bottom group, a subset of that Beat Saber modding group. And it was so attention-grabbing, as a result of this was a demographic that nobody else ever appealed to within the health house. It was avid gamers, a number of them, tremendous unhealthy that have been exercising accidentally.

And it was virtually like Beat Saber made them really feel like, “I’ve an opportunity now to truly be match.” These have been the fellows that you just’ve seen within the memes the place they’re like consuming chips on the sofa sort. That was our primary demographic, proper? Was youngsters who felt apathetic to even the concept of exercising.

And what it was, was a extremely good Computer virus that made individuals have the boldness that they really might begin exercising, proper? And that was the subset of the preliminary[00:26:00] group in YUR, the subset of the beat Saber modding group that realized, “hey, I can truly train.” That was our preliminary product. It went extremely properly. So then we created a Steam primarily based tracker that principally, would take your motion information and estimate very rudimentary, , initially into what energy you have been burning. After which it advanced right into a Quest app that you just needed to facet load. And we bought a bit of bit extra fancy over time the place we have been utilizing machine studying to estimate your coronary heart price primarily based off information that we had on coronary heart price. However, the objective was principally to create a Fitbit that didn’t require any {hardware}. And that was sort of the underlying objective of YUR. And, yeah, it labored extremely properly. I believe we grew to become the quantity two utility in Quest for a given time. Till it, uh, was de platformed.

Preston Lewis: So one query I wish to ask [00:27:00] is, simply feels like you’re very related to customers by way of these initiatives and merchandise you’re constructing. Which I believe is de facto necessary for our viewers to listen to, as a result of lots of people constructing these experiences, , individuals method it from a bunch of various angles. Whether or not it’s, “hey, we’ve a intestine feeling, we’re simply gonna do it”, or, “we don’t essentially want the validation as a result of we simply be ok with it.”

Seems like, from what you’ve talked about, and from what we collect, you’re the alternative. You after all have the intestine feeling, however feels like you’ve actually stayed near your customers all through the journey, and listened to them all through the method. So perhaps only a fast little temporary hit on that, for our viewers. What would you suggest as individuals are constructing the product so far as figuring out which route to go, validating the issues they’re constructing and issues like that?

Cix Liv: You must have a suggestions loop together with your customers, proper? One of many issues that I did that you could possibly argue isn’t factor for a CEO to be doing, and at scale that’s true, is [00:28:00] that each single destructive assessment, I might attain out to that individual and ask them “why?” And I’d be like, okay, “so why are you leaving us a destructive assessment?”

And so they’d be like, “properly, the UI right here sucks”, or “it’s affecting the efficiency of what I’m doing” or “I don’t assume it’s correct.” Proper? And, I chase after the those that didn’t like our product to search out out why they didn’t like our product, as an alternative of simply being like, “oh, man, I’m so unhappy individuals don’t like what we’re doing.” Proper? I assume the distinction between me and a few individuals who work in tech, is I get punched within the face and I simply see it as that is what I’m doing. Proper? Once you begin an organization, for those who don’t wish to be punched within the face, get a fucking day job, trustworthy to God. Go get a fucking day job. And if the worst factor that’s gonna occur to you is your supervisor is gonna be upset at you, that’s day. You guys know this, like, for those who wanna be a founder, you’ve to have the ability to like get punched within the face each fucking day and do it once more. One of many lowest factors I’ve ever had, a bit of little bit of a tangent right here, is I pitched [00:29:00] throughout Techstars, and that is again earlier than anyone actually cared a complete lot about VR. And I gave this large impassionate speech on why I imagine digital actuality is gonna be the long run.

And it was like, oh, I felt so good about myself. And the second I ended, an investor raised their hand. And he goes, “the second you stated VR I cease listening.” And I’m like, “man, fuck you, dude.” Like, what’s that? Such as you discredit a whole class. Like, I don’t care. Fuck off, man.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s sort of loopy, we see the identical factor. Like VCs, a number of occasions traders, they all the time speak about their future pondering visionaries, they wanna be part of like issues that folks haven’t seen but. However while you actually discuss to ’em about one thing that isn’t already mainstream or large or that everyone else is already investing into, you’re proper, it simply doesn’t actually compute to them. And it’s the identical factor, such as you stated, with like large corporations. I might say it’s not simply Fb, it’s virtually all large corporations. Like, they need information that proves it, and that’s actually what creates that chance for entrepreneurs is to get laughed [00:30:00] within the face. And the attention-grabbing factor about being laughed in your face is half the time you ought to be laughed at, and the opposite half, it’s the following large factor. And it’s all the time inconceivable on the time, with out wanting again on reflection to know, which route it truly is gonna go.

Cix Liv: I believe the toughest factor as an entrepreneur, for me, is having the ability to distill constructive criticism from assholes, proper?

As a result of typically the individuals who you assume are assholes, are literally supplying you with good suggestions. And typically the assholes are simply assholes, proper? And I believe that it’s actually exhausting to differentiate the 2 typically, proper? Like, the place somebody is supplying you with suggestions, however you’re like, it’s similar to, it’s, it’s so private to you what you’re doing. You’re like, “okay, thanks, however fuck you”, ? You understand?

Preston Lewis: That’s humorous.

Cix Liv: Like on the spot…

Preston Lewis: That’s my child.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it’s like your child. It’s like somebody getting in and being like, “man, your child’s ugly.” And I’m like, “properly, it’s my child?”

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah. “What’s mistaken with you?” That’s humorous. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: Then years later you look again at photos, you’re like, “man, that child was sort of [00:31:00] ugly.”

Preston Lewis: That individual was proper. That individual was proper.

Ryan DeLuca: I assume, I imply we’re joking, however like, it kinda is true. You look again on the enterprise you had, like, once we first got here out with Black Field, the onboarding expertise was simply not good in any respect. However, like, we simply cherished it a lot, after which once we first began getting suggestions, individuals have been saying so many destructive issues. And naturally the primary response you wanna have is, like, “they’re mistaken” and like all these items. However then, you sleep on it and you concentrate on, okay, we have to make these adjustments, and it’s a number of exhausting work to make adjustments, however you then return and also you make these adjustments.

You then look again at your child, on the time, and notice, like, yeah, that wasn’t good. And, and hopefully that’s all the time the case. Hopefully you look two years from now and all the time take a look at what you’re at present doing and say it was not almost nearly as good as it’s now. In any other case, you’ve been stagnant and hasn’t transfer ahead. Haven’t listened to that suggestions.

Cix Liv: I believe listening to your customers is totally foundational, as a result of for those who discuss to your folks, they’re all the time gonna offer you a optimistic spin, or normally or typically you simply have a good friend that shits on every little thing, proper? And so your folks are normally actually not proxy for whether or not or not what you’re doing is sweet. And household is even worse. You understand, household’s both [00:32:00] all the time gonna be destructive or all the time gonna be optimistic, relying on in the event that they assume you’re earning profits or not. Proper? In order that they’re, they’re horrible for suggestions loops. After which your co-founder, you may continuously be overly optimistic, since you each imagine in the identical issues.

In order that they’re normally additionally not proxy. How do you get out of the bubble that’s your mind, into market actuality? And the market actuality normally simply exists with the those that use your product. And getting them to truly talk and let you know is, I believe probably the most beneficial type of suggestions for those who’re constructing a client firm. Attending to the those that like your product or don’t like your product and “why.”

Preston Lewis: A bit comply with as much as that’s, do you’ve any small suggestions so far as the way you go about intelligently amassing that suggestions? Or is it simply straight up scouring the Fb posts, establishing a Discord? Or do you’ve particular issues that you just do, for instance, create surveys, do focus teams, or how does that course of go for you with amassing the suggestions?

Cix Liv: [00:33:00] In the event you talk with an individual, like, straight, it’s sort of just like the distinction between speaking to somebody by way of 4Chan and speaking to somebody by way of their face. Like face-to-face, proper?

for those who’re on 4Chan, you’re gonna shit on every little thing. It’s virtually like straight from mind stem to face, proper? Like “this fucking is horrible, that shit blah, blah, blah, blah.” After which after they discuss to you, they’re gonna be like, “properly, I believe you need to, , enhance this” or no matter. Proper? So, I believe it’s getting each of these views, proper? As a result of what you miss while you’re chatting with their customers are those that didn’t even care sufficient to speak to you, proper? Often the customers that you just’re speaking to are someplace between precise customers and professional customers, proper?

And also you’re normally getting not a number of the suggestions of the those that simply turned immediately, proper? They don’t wanna fucking reply to you. They don’t give a shit, they don’t wish to let you know what their expertise was. So that you’re gonna have a blind spot on that class [00:34:00] of potential customers, proper?

So for these, you’re gonna need to, like, discover it anecdotally by way of like Fb posts or dangerous opinions, and that is why I might all the time chase the dangerous assessment individuals. In the event you’re constructing that client product to know what’s churning individuals from the start and, what enhancements can I make for these informal customers after which, the professional customers, ought to we cater to them or not, ?

So I, I believe that getting these three views and perhaps bucketing individuals in these three issues, is an effective solution to iterate in your product.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Thanks a lot for that Cix. In order that’s all for this episode, we determined to separate this podcast into two episodes as a result of Cix had a lot great things to share with you all. So be part of us for half two of this episode, the place we’ll dig deeper into Cix’s upcoming XR undertaking and we’ll hear extra of his superior insights. We’ll see, on the following episode.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to electronic mail [00:35:00] us at podcast VR health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You may as well be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, maintain creating and dreaming up the following large factor that may revolutionize the world of health.