VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 11: ICAROS

Welcome to the most recent episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

At present, we’re thrilled to have Johannes Scholl on the present, who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS, an revolutionary digital actuality train system that mixes immersive gaming experiences with bodily health. Johannes and his group have been pushing the boundaries of VR health, introducing a novel strategy to understanding that has captured the eye of health fans and tech lovers alike. We are able to’t look forward to Johannes to share his insights and the story behind ICAROS with you.

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Episode 11 – ICAROS

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that may revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match. Together with your hosts, preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR gymnasium and produce many years of expertise from creating a few of the largest health know-how corporations on the earth. They’re bringing collectively the most effective and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. At present we now have Johannes Scholl on the present who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS. With a mission to empower people to realize their well being and health objectives by means of the usage of leading edge know-how and immersive gaming experiences. Johannes, thanks a lot for being right here with us.

Johannes Scholl: Thanks for having me, and I look ahead to this dialog with you guys.

Preston Lewis: So to kick it off, we wanna know what bought you into VR and health within the first place? Sort of how did your [00:01:00] private pursuits lead you right here?

Johannes Scholl: In order you’ll be able to think about, it’s fairly of a protracted story, however I’ll attempt to make a protracted story brief. I studied industrial design. So did my co-founder. And after I was nonetheless at college, I all the time knew that when I’d begin engaged on my grasp’s thesis, it must be one thing round health. And that was additionally across the time after I met my co-founder Michael, who was already working a design company down in Munich.

And I used to be working with him and I’ve informed him about my thought and I stated, “hey, you understand what? I wish to do one thing revolutionary. I wish to do one thing particular round health.” And he stated, “that’s cool, I wish to assist you right here, however let’s not deliver the bench press 2.0 or one thing. Let’s deliver one thing actually revolutionary, that the health business hasn’t seen earlier than.” He’s into health, we’re each into industrial design, and we stated, “okay, what’s probably the most motivating health expertise that we might consider?”

And we stated, ” how would it not be if we might create the feeling of flying [00:02:00] while doing all of your exercise?” As a result of we figured that with the ability to fly is a mankind’s dream, irrespective of the place on the planet. Like, all people has dreamt of this as soon as, proper? So we got here up with this primary idea and the enjoyable factor actually is that this all happened earlier than digital actuality was a factor. It was earlier than Oculus. It was earlier than Oculus first Kickstarter marketing campaign. Nonetheless we had the concept if this could work, it might solely work with digital actuality, proper? So ultimately, what we created again then was the long run idea of what we thought how health train might look in twenty 5 years from now.

Little did we all know that only a couple months later, digital actuality did grew to become a factor, and t hat’s the place your complete story began actually.

Ryan DeLuca: So many individuals after they first consider like, “oh, what might you do with, like, you understand, gaming and health?” And the very first thing is, like, actually, actually fundamental stuff. Like, “oh, you could possibly be having a private coach, or you could possibly do that stuff you used to do in a traditional gymnasium, however now in a recreation or in VR.” Which simply feels just like the least [00:03:00] artistic strategy to do it. Like, that is this entire new strategy to do issues. Why would you wanna do bench press 2.0? Like, no person needs to bench press. You understand? Even folks that say they like bench urgent, they most likely don’t actually find it irresistible that a lot in comparison with different issues. Why would you wanna try this versus, like, thrilling recreation and flying in VR?

Johannes Scholl: The factor was we wished to create a complete expertise and I feel that sounds acquainted to you. And after we began, we had this entire freedom of concepts, you understand? We have been considering so freely, as a result of there was no strain on us. We didn’t consider it as a enterprise within the very first place. As a result of as I stated, we have been considering like that is going to occur in twenty years from now. The enjoyable factor actually is when the primary headsets got here out, particularly the commercially accessible headsets. For instance, the Samsung Gear VR. If you happen to bear in mind? The place you probably did put your smartphone in, and then you definitely would have it as a VR display. Samsung was certainly one of our very first clients. They purchased a few ICAROS models to set them up of their pop-up shops that they have been opening all throughout Europe to demo their new know-how.

I assume one of many first [00:04:00] peripherals for digital actuality that you could possibly get. So that they outfitted all the pop-up shops with our machines to demo their very own know-how. And that was nice. And that’s additionally why I preach that timing is such an essential issue while you launch a brand new product, launch a brand new thought. And we stood on the station earlier than the hype practice arrived and we simply needed to leap onto it, and that actually helped us very a lot to get going.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. And also you kinda alluded to it, the flying, proper? However inform us about your product. What precisely is ICAROS? What’s the expertise like? What makes it particular and why’d you determine to create it this fashion?

Johannes Scholl: It grew to become a bit tougher to elucidate within the final couple of years, due to course our portfolio has grown and we now have a spread of merchandise. I assume the one the place all the pieces began with, and nonetheless the expertise that we’re most well-known for, is the mixture of a core exercise and a digital actuality flying expertise.

So let me begin with that. And principally, it’s a rig that you’d enter in a plank-like place. However you [00:05:00] wouldn’t simply lay on there, however you’ll be capable of transfer round, really, and by shifting your physique weight forwards and backwards and to the left and proper, you’ll be able to maneuver that factor. And we’re detecting your motions on the gadget with movement sensors. And ultimately, we’re transferring your motions on the gadget into digital actuality gameplay.

So it could develop into, say a Superman simulator, no matter you might be doing bodily on the gadget you’re doing in digital actuality. And it provides you a fairly intense core exercise, fairly intense shoulder exercise. Nevertheless it won’t solely enhance, like, your muscle power, however it’ll additionally enhance your sense for stability. Your coordination, your response, performance of your core. So actually, it’s about say, mind-muscle connection. That’s why it’s additionally utilized in remedy and stuff like that. Possibly we converse extra about that later. So you might be in that planking place sporting your headset, together with your motions on the gadget. You’re controlling the gameplay. Most of it’s about flying, nevertheless it doesn’t essentially must be flying; there’s additionally [00:06:00] underwater experiences, stuff like that.

I feel for me probably the most spectacular ones, one is our digital actuality multiplayer. It’s referred to as ICARACE. So that could be a futuristic racing recreation the place you’d fly a spaceship and you’d race different pilots, as we name them, from possibly even different international locations, different components on the earth, reside in digital actuality. And that could be a very intense expertise. And people races, they final for ten minutes, proper about, and it’s a tricky one. Yearly we now have world championships the place we invite the most effective pilots which have certified within the on-line pre-season, after which we put them on stage, allow them to race one another.

After which one other one, which I consider could be very spectacular. We began engaged on these sort of experiences two years in the past, proper about. We’ve got a cooperation with one other firm right here from Munich, they’re referred to as Actuality Maps. They offered us with panorama information that they create utilizing photogrammetry. And for instance, we now have now digitalized a few of [00:07:00] probably the most iconic sceneries within the Alps. Like we now have the Dolomites, or we now have components of the Swiss Alps or the German Alps. And you may actually undergo these sort of landscapes. We’ve got a Wingsuit simulator in there, racetracks, all this enjoyable stuff.

And you may expertise this in actual locations. Similar to Google Earth, however on the next high quality stage. There’s much more, however that’s sort of what’s occurring in digital actuality if you find yourself one of many ICAROS units.

Ryan DeLuca: Nicely, we talked about the place your product is as we speak, and naturally, persevering with to work and make it even higher, nevertheless it’s such an thrilling factor. Clearly you didn’t begin there, while you first began with the primary model to as we speak. What kind of learnings did you will have from the start, that in the event you might return to your self again in these days, you’d inform your self?

Johannes Scholl: Many, many alternative ones. However, let me attempt with a few of the most essential ones for me.

So first, as I stated, my co-founder and I we’re each industrial designers. We’re each artistic minds, which is an efficient factor and in addition a nasty factor. What I all the time attempt is, I attempt to visualize concepts very early, after which we additionally attempt to [00:08:00] prototype concepts as quickly as attainable to have the ability to check them. And so, stroll the stroll, proper? No matter you visualize would possibly flip right into a actuality at one level, it might not, but when you don’t visualize it, if you don’t construct, it won’t occur in any respect. In order that’s for positive.

Once we began off first, and I feel that was additionally with many different gamers within the discipline of digital actuality, particularly. No one actually knew the place it could be going, the place it was heading. From our DNA, we knew that we wished to mix health and gaming.

With the primary video games we constructed, we didn’t have any expertise. We didn’t have any consumer suggestions. So I imply, it’s essential to know who’s the consumer, who’s the client? Who’s the consumer. Typically that’s the identical particular person. Typically it’s not the identical particular person, and you’ll have a buyer and you’ll have an finish consumer.

What do they count on from you? It’s that small line between getting consumer suggestions, implementing consumer suggestions, and listening to the customers. And generally additionally to not take heed to them and do your personal factor, as a result of possibly you understand [00:09:00] higher and you understand what’s forward, you understand, you’re one step forward of them.

So I feel that’s a wonderful line between implementing consumer suggestions and, on the identical time, be true to your self, as a result of who got here up with that idea? You probably did. So consider in your self as properly. Nonetheless, it actually comes right down to what I consider product market match. That’s for positive. You’ll be able to have the fanciest concepts, if the product won’t work within the designated setting, you’ll not have a enterprise. Proper? I feel that was one thing, particularly within the first two, three years or so, the place we additionally needed to be taught rather a lot. Like, who’s the client? Who’re we constructing it for? In what approach is it going for use? The place will it’s most useful? The place will it actually make a distinction?

How can we clear up the issues that our buyer has and stuff like that. That is quite common, however nonetheless it’s one thing that it’s important to be taught originally. And the opposite factor, I feel that you understand very properly, since you did do that very properly while you began, and I additionally suppose that we didn’t do the worst job right here, was being loud. And being [00:10:00] acknowledged and being, like, far and wide. And that’s one thing the place I feel we additionally did a very good job. So while you begin one thing new, it’s important to be, it’s important to be loud, proper? Go for the awards, go for the commerce exhibits, go for the media, go for the bloggers, go for social media, go for… take no matter you’ll be able to take to be sure that individuals will take discover.

I bear in mind after we first went to CES, we have been down within the Sands Expo at Eureka Park. And again then it was, you had these ten by ten cubicles. Tremendous small, like startup zoo, sort of, tremendous vibrant environment, very crowded. And we introduced the ICAROS gadget, the primary professional gadget for the very first time. And the sales space was packed, and we had press, and media, and plenty of stuff was occurring. For us, it was an ideal expertise. The primary present within the US, and all of this buzz occurring. And we took rather a lot out of it.

Nonetheless, one 12 months later we went to the identical place, Eureka Park, identical ten by ten cubicles. And the one distinction was that this time we had [00:11:00] a correct video on YouTube and on social media, like Fb, again then it was. And it modified all the pieces. This time we had, inside one week, we had greater than thirty million views on our video. And it bought viral and it was Mashable, and Bored Panda, and USA At present, and also you title it. It was the identical product, was the identical present, identical individuals. The one distinction was that our preparations have been rather a lot higher this time. Then additionally you bought luck and timing and stuff like that. That’s additionally studying. It’s important to be loud, it’s important to be current, however you additionally have to be ready to make one thing out of it. However in the end, this story additionally has a draw back, as a result of that was, I consider, 2017? And I imply, what does CES stand for? It stands for Shopper Digital Present.

Electronics, sure. Present, sure. Shopper, no. We solely had this huge ICAROS promo that you’d purchase for 9 thousand again then. So, we obtained, I don’t know, seven, eight thousand emails, and we [00:12:00] have been three individuals. And we have been doing evening shifts simply to reply these emails. And you may think about that ninety % of these requests have been, like, “okay, can I get this for my lounge?”

And we’re like, “properly, sure you’ll be able to, nevertheless it’s ten grand.” So, it actually helped us to drive substantial enterprise again then. Nonetheless these days with all, we now have the patron vary in line, and the web store and all the pieces. So in the event you would have the identical thirty million video views and 7 thousand emails, we might make much more out of it. However that’s sort of the tales you’ll be able to inform later.

Preston Lewis: For higher or for worse, as pioneers, we’re paying the innovation tax, proper?

Somebody’s gotta do it, gotta go on the market and blaze the path. And so we’re actually appreciative to others that try this. You guys included, as a result of after we began Black Field in 2016, we’d say the time period “VR health”, and their eyes would glaze over and so they’d be tremendous confused. They didn’t perceive. And so simply because ICAROS, and possibly Virtuix and lots of these individuals have been within the recreation so lengthy with these viral movies, and [00:13:00] taking the dangers. It’s clearly been costly initially, nevertheless it’s pushed your complete business ahead.

So, positively cool that you just guys did that.

Johannes Scholl: I briefly talked about earlier, I feel that was earlier than the digicam was rolling. We simply bought again from FIBO in Cologne a pair weeks in the past. I imply, that’s one of many greatest health and physique constructing exhibits on the earth. This 12 months that they had a delegated space for XR gaming, digital actuality, eSports health. 5 years in the past, unthinkable. Unthinkable. And now you’ll be able to see that. I feel that’s very cool. It’s nice that the organizers acknowledge the potential and in addition that they do one thing out of it. And now you’ll be able to actually really feel the assist of the business and in addition the acceptance on the opposite facet, which is simply as essential. You can’t solely simply push know-how after which look forward to it. That’s not the way it works. So that you want the acceptance too. We all know that there’s potential in utilizing digital actuality or gamification basically in health. The exercises are extra fascinating, you may make them simpler.

You’ll be able to actually make them addictive, like an eSports expertise. In a great way.

Preston Lewis: [00:14:00] You simply made me suppose that, you could possibly nearly have, a triathlon-style occasion. Kinda like you will have with biking, swimming, working, the place it could possibly be, Black Field exercise, ICAROS flying, a Virtuix working expertise. The place you could possibly really do that, triathlon, multi-event kind of an expertise. However with this futuristic know-how.

Johannes Scholl: I completely see this and we should always discuss this, as a result of I do know that many individuals on the market would love being part of this. I feel that’s additionally a imaginative and prescient, like having these XR Olympics factor, sort of, occurring.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s far more thrilling. There’s so many issues you are able to do in these loopy fantasy worlds you couldn’t do in a real-life triathlon. And extra accessible and may apply from dwelling. Like, there’s so many cool components that, I imply, that’s for positive coming. The wonderful factor is individuals say, “oh, VR, like, I don’t need that. It’s this dystopian thought and I’m all on my own in my headset.” The place it’s, like, the precise reverse is true. Like, you’ll be able to have probably the most social expertise with different individuals. And even simply, like, the Zwift-style stuff, it’s like social health and be capable of be there with different individuals. And the enjoyable, aggressive and cooperative. And eSports as we’ve seen, like, it could possibly be probably the most social factor, which [00:15:00] the social a part of it’s actually what drives how a lot you care about it and the that means behind the actions.

So that you talked about, you bought suggestions at a few of the commerce exhibits and clearly from the press. What suggestions have you ever obtained from folks that have used your product, and, you understand, any attention-grabbing tales or something that’s shocking that got here out of that?

Johannes Scholl: We’ve all the time been working not solely within the health business, but additionally within the medical well being rehabilitation and remedy world. And we now have strengthened that work. And simply within the final couple of months we now have put in the primary ICAROS well being models, that’s our flagship mannequin, in hospitals, for instance. And in German rehabilitation hospitals. And it’s simply nice to get suggestions from sufferers utilizing our units, as a result of for them digital actuality basically, and I feel our units particularly, can actually be a recreation changer. When you have an individual that will increase their strolling pace considerably after a stroke, by means of utilizing ICAROS units, discount of spasms, enhance of whole physique composition, general happiness of their life and having a [00:16:00] joyful rehabilitation expertise. As a result of in the event you’re going to rehab, this could be a very irritating expertise for you, possibly generally with little progress, lack of motivation, ache and all the pieces that’s associated to it.

And I imply, in the event you ask me for the good tales to inform, I’ll let you know affected person tales. Particular person success tales of sufferers. Whether or not it’s orthopedic, decrease again ache or if it’s neurologic sufferers. That’s one thing very rewarding to see.

After which final however not least, within the final years and now once more after Covid, we now have put in a few of our models in a few of the coolest locations on Earth. Like the highest notch medical retreats, the excessive finish 5 star motels. Like, the locations the place the wealthy and the well-known go. You see the skilled athletes and the celebrities understanding with it. If you happen to look again a few years and also you stated, “you turned this into actuality”, that’s an ideal story.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. I imply, after we began Black Field VR, lots of it was primarily based on the truth that most individuals stop their health packages, proper? The adherence [00:17:00] to a health program is simply dismal throughout the board. As a result of why? It’s boring, it’s not very partaking, lots of occasions it’s not very social, it hurts. You understand, possibly you don’t have entry to a gymnasium or no matter. And so, it’s attention-grabbing as a result of it’s the identical factor with rehabilitation, proper? Folks go in, they get a surgical procedure, and we hear it on a regular basis from a few of the hospitals we talked to within the early days, however they principally stated, you understand, “at the least fifty % of individuals will drop out.” If you happen to’re not adhering to a health program, it’s simply unhealthy in your common well being, proper? It’s simply you’re not gonna be as match, you’re not gonna get the cognitive advantages and all these different wonderful issues that include understanding often.

However in rehabilitation, it’s even worse, proper? As a result of in the event you get a surgical procedure and in the event you don’t adhere to a program, you’ll be able to now not bend your knee, possibly. You’ll be able to now not prolong your arm, proper? In order that’s, I feel the cool factor about this know-how throughout the board, whether or not it’s from health or rehab, such as you’re speaking about. Is that gamification and these recreation mechanics paired with these immersive applied sciences have the flexibility to drastically [00:18:00] enhance that adherence stage by means of the enjoyable, and the epicness and engagement. And as you each have talked about, having the potential to be far more social as properly, so.

Johannes Scholl: The social facet. We’re in a position to customise the expertise and to individualize the exercise and create a custom-made rehabilitation journey. We’ve got simply launched the software program that is known as ICAROS N.E.X.T., Neuro Expertise Coaching, the place you as a affected person would enter the gadget for the primary time and you’ll get your first, like, preset check to search out out what’s your present health stage. And from that time on, you’ll have custom-made particular person race tracks that may be designed only for you primarily based in your private skillset. After which the higher you develop into, the tougher, the more difficult it’ll get. So it’ll continuously push you to the sting of your consolation zone. After which over time we are going to see your progress, your particular person progress, you could additionally evaluate to others.

However ultimately, it’s your journey and you’ll be happy with your self and your progress. And the software program, it’ll all the time be as match as you might be and [00:19:00] it’ll all the time deliver you to your most and attempt to get the most effective out of you. And, I imply, there’s much more of potential in gamification basically, too. It’s not simply that it’s extra enjoyable. If you happen to construct a very good recreation that’s given, however then what else are you able to do with it? Like actually driving the effectiveness of every session. That’s one thing we’re wanting into rather a lot proper now. And it’s additionally for the long run software program growth, like particular person exercises, plans, rehabilitation journeys. That’s one thing we’re positively wanting into rather a lot.

Ryan DeLuca: Nobody ever says they’re excited to go to rehab. You understand? Isn’t that the Amy Winehouse music? It’s like, “they tried to make me go to rehab, however I stated, no, no, no.”

However yeah. However no person’s ever like, “what do you will have occurring as we speak?” It’s like, “I’m gonna rehab, I’m so excited. It’s rehab day.” You understand? I imply, what we take into consideration rather a lot is so many issues in life that you just wish to do, that it is best to do, proper?

Since you ought to do it. It’s best to learn these books. It’s best to exercise, clearly, it is best to eat, you understand, the proper meals. It’s important to, like, power your self to do it. Or do some sort of, like, incentive to make it so that you do it. Like, your physician’s gonna yell at you in the event you [00:20:00] don’t do the rehab.

However, you understand, you go to regular rehab and clearly, like we talked about the identical as like a exercise, like, it’s not enjoyable. It’s time consuming. It’s painful. You don’t see fast outcomes, you understand? You don’t instantly go in there and see one thing. The place with video games you’ll be able to see fast outcomes. Like, you simply hit a brand new document on this or attain this new stage, and also you’re getting the rewards, and pleasure and there’s simply so many issues you could possibly do.

What we actually suppose is, it’s much less about to get individuals simply do what they know they need to do and check out to determine tips on how to power that. However how can we make the factor it is best to do one thing you wish to do.

Possibly we’ll change gears just a bit bit, be taught a bit bit extra in regards to the enterprise facet of ICAROS. You understand, what’s the general enterprise mannequin? I do know you will have completely different fashions going into B2B. You clearly have the house variations of what you will have, however inform us a bit bit extra in regards to the enterprise mannequin and the way you’re working to make that profitable.

Johannes Scholl: Proper. So, usually, you could possibly determine between these two branches. We bought the patron department and the opposite one is the business. Simply traditionally we began ICAROS with business product, I discussed earlier. Like 10k for the {hardware}, after which we’d go into these high [00:21:00] locations, and a few of that is nonetheless the case.

Nonetheless, particularly after this occasion on CES, we observed okay, there’s some sturdy demand from customers on the market. So, we should always have one thing for them at hand as properly. Till the Covid pandemic actually hit, we have been on the trail to work on the business health and medical and people top-notch resort. So it was all business clients, who all shut down by means of the pandemic. After which, we needed to, sort of, invent a second enterprise mannequin. And that invention was the ICAROS HOME with the ICAROS CLOUD. And likewise we stepped again from solely making digital actuality content material to additionally having a cell app that may run on the consumer’s pill or smartphone.

And that may work with some quite simple units like our ICAROS CLOUD, which is an inflatable full physique exercise gadget. That within the first place doesn’t work with digital actuality. So these days, I feel we now have much more customers on our cell app than we now have in digital actuality. Nonetheless, we now have a bit [00:22:00] completely different enterprise fashions right here.

So if we’d discuss to business clients these days, a lot of the income we’d generate with this type of buyer is thru the {hardware} and software program lifetime license. So, for instance, if we’d discuss to a remedy middle in Germany and we might arrange a tool for say twenty 5 thousand euros, for them, it’s actually essential to, like, have this one time fee after which have your complete system arrange after which go from there. The extra we glance into health and customers, the extra we glance into recurring income by means of software program subscriptions. Particularly our ICAROS app, it’s a month-to-month subscription. It’s nineteen {dollars} per thirty days. And you may select month-to-month, you’ll be able to activate or deactivate. So I feel it is extremely truthful contract that we’re providing right here and it’s continuously rising, that could be a wonderful thing about it. On-line subscriptions, they’re changing into increasingly essential for our whole enterprise mannequin.

As a shopper, you’d purchase an ICAROS HOME or ICAROS CLOUD, you’d get the unit and then you definitely would look into the [00:23:00] subscriptions. However usually content material is king, and it’s extra, and increasingly in regards to the content material. Once I converse of growth these days, my co-founder, who’s main our growth group, it’s software program growth actually. And it’s additionally enjoyable to see, since you’re getting that suggestions so immediately.

You launch a brand new recreation, you will note the acceptance fee. You will notice how lengthy will probably be performed. Are individuals keen to pay for it? Will they invite others? Will they battle one another on the leaderboard? Stuff like that. I, in fact, love the web strategy, as a result of it’s like getting in shut contact with the top consumer. So, these are the 2 enterprise fashions for us.

Final however not least, by means of Covid additionally, we actually began with establishing a web-based retailer and promoting on to customers. So we actually kicked off D2C enterprise, that we didn’t have three years in the past. The world has opened up once more, not solely in Europe and the US, but additionally Asia now. New initiatives are being began, health requirements, motels. So it’s nice to be again on the map for them. But additionally, we construct up this complete shopper [00:24:00] universe and it’s nice to have this now, as a result of we will simply preserve doing that with out letting go of the enterprise clients. In order that’s sort of what we’re proper now.

Preston Lewis: As you’re saying that, it’s actually attention-grabbing to suppose again, as a result of hindsight’s twenty-twenty and, fortunately issues have, sort of, labored out in the best way we’d hope with, so far as VR health within the business, proper? As a result of I imply, it might have taken a very completely different flip. Meta may not have invested in it. HTC may not have stored going with their units and stuff, nevertheless it’s, sort of, turned out for us.

However what it makes me take into consideration is, you will have a cell app, which you talked about has extra individuals utilizing it proper now. Whereas VR, it’s nonetheless early. It’s attention-grabbing, as a result of to me it seems like after we have been at Bodybuilding.com, it was the identical dialogue between cell and net. Proper? Whenever you’re constructing software program merchandise. It was, like, we had like ninety % of the order… properly, I imply, clearly 100% have been, like, desktop. After which there was this second, Ryan and I bear in mind, the place it was, like, “wow, cell is gonna take over all of this, we should always most likely get forward of these things.”

And so it’s simply actually attention-grabbing that we’re nonetheless in that second in [00:25:00] time. I feel it’s essential for our listeners, as a result of early days was tremendous dangerous to get into VR. Now we’ve, sort of, handed this hump the place it’s nonetheless early days, there’s nonetheless a ton of alternative within the business. However we’re, sort of, now on that precipice of, like, “are they actually gonna go away from utilizing their cell phones? Wouldn’t individuals relatively watch motion pictures and issues on their cell phones?” It’s like, properly, wait a minute. Fairly quickly it’s gonna be hindsight, the place they’re like, “oh, everybody has a really cheap headset the place they cannot solely fulfill all their leisure wants, however they’re gonna be capable of do all of the health stuff.”

So, thought that was a very essential level that got here to thoughts, as you’re saying this entire, “proper now, our cell app has extra customers, however VR, you understand, it’s selecting up.” It’s nonetheless a ton of alternative for builders and creators to have the ability to get into this.

Johannes Scholl: One of many main causes for us after we developed the CLOUD, and the cell app and that whole system was, we are attempting to reply three questions. As a result of let’s say, okay, it’s Covid and also you wish to promote product to the web retailer, like, what’s wanted.

And we stated, we wish to construct a full physique exercise gadget. So it must be full physique, which the ICAROS units, they provide [00:26:00] you core, they provide you shoulder, they provide you coordination. However for instance, arms or legs don’t actually play a serious function on the ICAROS gadget. So we stated, okay, it must be full physique.

Then the opposite factor was, it must be appropriate for your complete household. So, if mommy buys it and he or she must justify, she will say, “hey, the children can use it, you should utilize it.” So it must be adaptable for particular person necessities. Then the opposite factor was, must be shipped in a single field by way of UPS. As a result of we’ll solely be capable of ship it by means of the web retailer.

Once more, the fourth one, and that was actually essential, was, we wish to have a really low entry hurdle on the technological facet. So we stated, realistically as we speak, three years in the past, like, what number of of our potential clients do personal a headset? Not too many. What number of of those will purchase a headset, as a result of their want to get that exercise expertise with ICAROS is so sturdy. A few them. We’re promoting headsets rather a lot, not an enormous deal. However what’s the gadget, what’s the know-how that all the potential clients have already got? [00:27:00] That’s the cell gadget. So ultimately, that’s how we developed the system.

We sneak into the households of the individuals with out promoting them an excessive amount of additional tools. Nonetheless, we’re sturdy believers within the potential of VR, and particularly there the place digital actuality will not be a nice-to-have, however it may well actually flip into a must have. And, I discussed remedy earlier. Additionally skilled sports activities.

With utilizing digital actuality, you’ll be able to actually make the exercises develop into simpler. You may make a distinction in how the individuals react. If we discuss to stroke sufferers, for instance, the immersion in digital actuality makes such a distinction for them, as a result of they, sort of, go away the true world and all of a sudden the psychological impact performs an enormous function.

Or I can ask the identical particular person to lean to the proper fifteen levels and maintain that place for a minute, and that particular person will inform me, ” have a look at me, I’m not in a position to try this.” And the identical particular person, [00:28:00] I’ll put the VR headset on and can ask to try this motion, as a result of the particular person doesn’t wish to hit an impediment or they wish to gather some factors, and all of a sudden voila. It really works.

And I present that particular person the video in a while and so they say, ” oh shit, that’s unbelievable.”

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Johannes Scholl: They, sort of, really feel themselves otherwise. It is also skilled athletes searching for these additional beneficial properties. And so the cognitive facet and the psychological facet you could add in quite simple methods simply by placing a headset on. Low price, accessible in all places.

I imply, that may develop into an actual recreation changer. And I feel that the business must also look into these advantages and make use of them as a substitute of simply copying what’s already there.

I’m curious, like, how your complete VR business will develop, and when will we see these headsets and the releases of huge corporations. I assume all people’s curious.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s an ideal segue. You understand what’s attention-grabbing is, I completely agree. If you happen to consider VR as only a display in your face, and it’s like, “what’s an enormous deal? You understand, like, I’d relatively simply have a display [00:29:00] some other place.” However while you really notice and see the research which have proven that, like, your mind treats it fully completely different. Everyone knows Thoughts Over Matter. And the Placebo Impact.

There’s many alternative issues that like you’ll be able to, like, nearly hack your mind to transcend your limitations. And simply, it’s a complete new world. After which as soon as individuals notice like, “whoa, it is a new paradigm for what’s attainable in all these completely different areas, that makes it approach higher.” You understand, not simply, like, 5 % higher, however doubtlessly 10x higher.

Johannes Scholl: Precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s that psychological leap, I feel, that imaginative and prescient that when individuals get that, and that we and others are proving it out, that’s gonna assist to actually drive that dwelling. And I feel, to only sort of segue proper into that, as we speak’s VR health panorama, clearly with you and lots of different nice corporations which can be constructing experiences and at-home and in-gym. With the know-how we now have as we speak, which is approach higher than these early years, you understand, that we bear in mind seven years in the past. Nevertheless it’s nonetheless not fairly the place we would like, however what do you concentrate on the cutting-edge health as we speak? And extra importantly, the place do you suppose it’s gonna go? {Hardware}, software program adoption for health and sports activities, extra particularly, within the [00:30:00] subsequent three to 5 years?

Johannes Scholl: It’s exhausting to inform the place it’s going, however my want for the place it must be going is that we focus onto the advantages and on the large distinction that digital actuality, the affect it may well have. And the fast impact on coaching, particularly the cognitive, psychological elements. Anticipation, coordination, stability, like, full skillset that in any other case you’d possibly solely practice while going snowboarding or taking part in tennis, and stuff like that.

Then making use of, actually, the neighborhood facet, the social facet. Being at dwelling, having a cool class with different individuals, irrespective of the place on the earth. I don’t know the place it’s going, however I’m positive that it’ll not disappear.

I consider that the builders and the gamers within the business, additionally the know-how producers, they need to additionally hyperlink and cooperate and inform one another the place stuff’s going. Expertise must assist us as builders to make this imaginative and prescient flip right into a actuality.

If that’s occurring, then I see an ideal future for digital actuality train with all [00:31:00] these completely different aspects and elements.

Preston Lewis: What I feel the cool factor too is, I imply, we’re all doing this for lots of various causes, proper? As a result of we now have a imaginative and prescient, but additionally on the finish of the day, that is gonna actually positively affect individuals’s lives.

It’s the mission to have the ability to assist individuals, in Black Field’s case, assist them stage up their lives utilizing this immersive know-how, by creating these addictive health experiences, particularly the dependancy. I imply, it’s all the time been this type of like destructive connotation, however we actually suppose that gamifying issues the proper approach can create wholesome addictions which can be gonna enable you. Like we talked about originally of the podcast.

Johannes Scholl: A optimistic behavior.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, precisely. A optimistic behavior that folks persist with and cling to that get all of them the opposite optimistic advantages of that. In order that being stated, sort of, segueing into what’s been probably the most rewarding facet of constructing ICAROS?

Has it been a buyer testimonial? Possibly one thing you noticed within the medical discipline? Possibly it’s simply the pure pleasure of making a cool, revolutionary product? What’s been probably the most rewarding facet?

Johannes Scholl: There’s many alternative rewarding ones, as you stated. The pure pleasure of [00:32:00] making a related, radically new revolutionary know-how. And being acknowledged as a related participant in that discipline, in our time alone is one thing that I consider, as a product developer and startup founder, is one thing that many individuals would possibly dream of being in that place sooner or later. So try to be grateful for that alone. That’s rewarding within the first place, constructing one thing actually out of nowhere, and turning that imaginative and prescient right into a actuality. All in all, that’s crucial and most rewarding facet.

Nonetheless, in the event you have a look at it extra carefully, it’s in fact the individuals utilizing the units. Particularly the sufferers bettering on the units, individuals altering their minds and altering their methods to reside and being extra lively, dwelling extra wholesome life-style. And telling you this on Instagram. These days, numerous occasions I actually simply repost consumer generated content material, as a result of I see individuals at dwelling, working with our units, with [00:33:00] their household. And I didn’t ask them to publish a video of it, it’s simply they take pleasure in their exercise and so they take pleasure in understanding with the techniques. That’s the second half that’s simply really rewarding, and it exhibits you that the know-how you’re working with, the merchandise you constructing, that they’re related.

Final however not least, in fact it’s cool to see a few of the models being put in in a few of these locations the place I’d by no means dream of. It’s not a lot in regards to the individuals. It’s nice if celebrities use it, and stuff like that. However actually, like, having these services recognizing your complete potential this know-how has, and utilizing our models, putting in them there. And utilizing them as, to not brag with it, however actually additionally as like, “hey, look what we bought, we bought this ICAROS instrument.” We’ve got this one set up in Switzerland on the Crimson Bull media world the place they are saying, “hey, this unit we now have right here, we can’t change the tools, we can’t change, we can’t take your tools out right here.”

They’re simply utilizing it throughout, and over, and over, and over and each two years or so, it’s important to go there and tighten all of the [00:34:00] screws and take care of the models, as a result of they’re used a lot. And I feel these are probably the most rewarding elements of your complete journey.

Not a lot the awards. For the second, that’s additionally one thing you might be happy with, however actually, I imply, it’s the long-term success. And the long-term suggestions that actually retains you going and that motivates you additionally to take the subsequent steps. And that’s it for me, actually.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s simply this wonderful feeling generally while you’re like, “this was actually simply an thought in our heads.” Like, and it’s loopy that that’s attainable as people, so we will do that working collectively. Nevertheless it simply this concept, which no matter that’s, you understand, in our brains and these neurons. And dealing collectively, after which swiftly there it’s, and then you definitely get that suggestions that you just dreamed of. Of like, “that was so enjoyable.” Or “the rehab was far more efficient.” Prefer it’s nearly bizarre. Nearly loopy that we will even try this.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, no. I imply, simply to piggyback on that as properly, I feel the opposite cool factor, particularly within the ICAROS case, is that, and I assume additionally with the Black Field case, is that the medical business is beginning to acknowledge this know-how as an actual legit instrument for rehabilitation, [00:35:00] in addition to the health business for all the opposite stuff we talked about.

You talked about if a medical college or facility is utilizing it in your finish, which means they’ve most likely gone by means of some fairly loopy rigorous testing. They’ve actually vet, I imply the medical business has all of the compliance points and stuff like that, and so they actually vet the applied sciences that are available in.

So I feel it speaks volumes to the legitimacy of this know-how, of your know-how, the truth that they’re really utilizing that again and again of their services.

Johannes Scholl: In the long run, actually it’s about, like, does it assist or not? That’s the straightforward query. Whenever you converse with sufferers. I imply, it’s just like the enjoyable and all the pieces, that’s good to have, however does it assist me?

And once more, that’s the place I consider digital actuality already is a recreation changer. And there’s lots of research accessible already on, Digital actuality, not solely with health, but additionally, like, going to the dentist and having the headset on, and like all of these results, all the pieces that’s occurring in your mind in digital actuality that you should utilize positively.

That’s additionally my sturdy perception why digital actuality won’t disappear, as a result of it already discovered its niches the place you understand it actually makes a [00:36:00] enormous distinction. You’ll be able to’t let go of it anymore. Now we are going to see the way it grows extra into different areas as properly by changing into extra reasonably priced, less difficult to make use of, extra palms on, and on, and on and on.

Nevertheless it already has confirmed its effectiveness. So it’s a confirmed know-how now.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s exhausting for me to carry this one again, as a result of I preserve fascinated by, like, the rehab. It’s like, you understand, you’re saying just like the particular person goes into rehab. And like, “I can’t transfer my arm this a lot.” After which, you understand, they’ve to maneuver outta the best way to a hospital, after which they present they really can. I’m imagining, like, you understand, an older particular person in VR, they begin strolling. Velocity is sluggish. However they’re on this good, stunning setting. After which Cocaine Bear comes flying at them and so they must run away. And it’s like, “look, see? I informed you you could possibly. Look what you probably did.” You see individuals freaking out. Which may not be a good suggestion. However, like, yeah swiftly… “see how briskly you ran?” They usually’ll be like, “I’m by no means doing this once more.”

Preston Lewis: Now you make me wanna watch Cocaine Bear. I nonetheless haven’t seen it. That sounds superior.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fairly enjoyable.

Preston Lewis: Nicely and to piggyback on that, as properly, with the Black Field stuff so far as the research. We’ve completed a number of research with UCLA, [00:37:00] college research. And, man, the outcomes that the individuals within the research have skilled are insane. Like, we did one the place it was three months of exercises, which was about twelve weeks of thrice per week doing a Black Field exercise. And it proved that Black Field’s expertise in comparison with, like, the normal cable resistance machine coaching, which was “the management”, resulted in higher decreased physique fats, elevated lean physique mass, decrease resting coronary heart fee, decrease systolic diastolic blood strain, elevated flexibility. Just about each, each metric you could possibly have measured the Black Field VR exercise was higher than the normal cable resistance coaching. And that is all primarily based on college research, so we consider that is the way forward for health, because it sounds such as you do as properly. And the entire business’s simply getting began.

Johannes Scholl: The business ought to work collectively. The electronics producers, the software program builders. I imply, everyone knows particularly with sure clients, how exhausting it may be to actually set up digital actuality tools at [00:38:00] some place after which get it working. Like, putting in is one half, however then have it being operated by the individuals on website who is likely to be, I don’t know, healthcare professionals, no matter. The simpler it turns into, the simpler the job will probably be for us. And in the end the extra sufferers, customers, will profit from it.

Preston Lewis: You and your group have been on the forefront of innovation on this house. So, we wanna know, our viewers needs to know what’s subsequent for ICAROS? Do you will have any thrilling new upcoming developments or merchandise that you’ve within the pipeline?

Johannes Scholl: I discussed earlier that our focus actually is software program growth. So I can inform, like, inside this 12 months or so, you’ll not see any new loopy {hardware} from ICAROS.

We continuously deliver loopy new {hardware}, however not for now. We’re actually specializing in each app and digital actuality software program growth. Build up the neighborhood, making the person consumer profile extra essential for the person consumer. Like this itch, to continuously, like, log in. These sort of results are essential to us.

After which, we’ll conduct a number of research in Germany with [00:39:00] hospitals and universities round decrease again ache. We simply launched a examine with the College Clinic in Heidelberg. They’re working with post-Covid, long-Covid sufferers. Most of it’s actually about motivation and getting individuals into exercise once more through the use of digital actuality.

That will probably be very attention-grabbing to see the end result of that examine. After which, in fact, implementing all of those learnings into our software program, these individualized coaching packages will play a serious function. So, numerous stuff occurring within the digital world at ICAROS proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: I simply wanna say, it’s an honor to have the ability to have you ever on the podcast. If you happen to would’ve informed my fourteen 12 months previous self, after I was watching Lawnmower Man, that I’d discover and meet the person who really make this a actuality and I’m gonna get match from it. Like, that’s, I’d’ve blown my fourteen 12 months previous thoughts.

Johannes Scholl: Thank Preston, Ryan, it’s our pleasure to be part of your podcast. And likewise following you, and your progress and course of all through the time, working with digital actuality and in addition having this worldwide connection [00:40:00] in Europe and the US, which I feel is a really cool factor. And it’s not a given, and if in case you have a relation, you could work on a relation. And that’s cool. So once more, it’s my pleasure to contribute to this podcast as we speak a bit. Man, I look ahead to our subsequent dialog.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Nicely, that’s on a regular basis we now have. Thanks a lot, Johannes, for becoming a member of us and sharing your group’s story, insights and keenness for creating the way forward for VR Health with our viewers. For any of you within the viewers, as standard, in the event you’d wish to get involved with the group, we’ll put all the data into the present notes, so be sure you verify these out. Thanks once more.

Growth. Explosions. All proper. Let’s, uh, that was superior. Um, let’s do…

Ryan DeLuca: Are we imagined to dab now?

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t overlook to e mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and observe us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You too can be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, preserve creating and dreaming up the subsequent huge factor that may [00:41:00] revolutionize the world of health.